With Müntefering at Lanz: Gysi: "We must return to the social SPD"

One was chairman of the SPD, the other head of the Left Party parliamentary group: Franz Müntefering and Gregor Gysi discuss the past and future of their parties on Lanz. The Left Party politician believes that the Social Democrats' decline is thanks to Gerhard Schröder.

The last week of talk shows before the summer break has begun. Markus Lanz has invited two elder statesmen to join him this Tuesday. Franz Müntefering, 85, was SPD leader from 2002 to 2005 and then Vice Chancellor under Angela Merkel for two years, as well as Minister of Labor and Social Affairs. Before that, he briefly served as Minister of Transport and Construction in the first government of SPD Chancellor Gerhard Schröder. Gregor Gysi, 76, elected chairman of the SED in the GDR in 1989, attempted to steer the party onto a new course. He served as chairman of the party, which had since been renamed the PDS, until 1993. For many years, he served as group leader and later parliamentary group leader, and for two years as opposition leader in the Bundestag. This year, he opened the show as the oldest member of the party. The "original leftist" is one of his party's figureheads. Both politicians reflect on their past on Lanz. But they also talk about their visions for the future. "The world is changing in many ways. And this is also having an impact on politics." Franz Müntefering recognized and accepted this.

Müntefering recognizes that his party is currently on the decline. Nevertheless, he believes electing Lars Klingbeil as co-chair was a good decision. On election night in February, he admits he was afraid that no one would be found for the position.

Gregor Gysi recognizes that the image of the SPD has changed since Gerhard Schröder. For a long time, it was no longer perceived as an alternative to the CDU/CSU. "Somehow, we have to return to the social SPD as it was under Willy Brandt, but also when the SPD was founded," says Gysi. "The interests of workers must be at the forefront," demands the Left Party politician. Germany must defend itself against those forces that are trying to dismantle the democratic welfare state. "We are under pressure from outside because American President Trump wants us to dismantle it. But we are also under pressure from within because the AfD also wants us to dismantle it. And those who want to preserve free democracy and the rule of law are unable to organize together. That is my problem."

Müntefering for conscription

This could also include a common defense. Germany must be capable of defending itself, says the federal government. Franz Müntefering sees it the same way. In 2011, he opposed the suspension of conscription, he told Lanz. Today, its reintroduction is necessary. Gysi sees it differently. "I can only introduce a requirement if it doesn't work at another level. At the moment, we can make the Bundeswehr capable of defending itself without conscription." If it doesn't work without conscription, Gysi would like to introduce a social year for men and women. Everyone should then be able to choose between the Bundeswehr or a social year.

To achieve something like this, in a party democracy like Germany, you need the parties. And they have a problem: dwindling membership. The SPD and CDU have seen their numbers drop by about half since reunification. The situation is different for The Left Party. According to Gregor Gysi, the party gained about 60,000 new members this year, significantly rejuvenating its membership. "The reason for this is the attitude," says Gysi. By this, he is referring to the emotional rebellion of Left Party parliamentary group leader Heidi Reichinnek against a bill proposed by then-opposition leader Friedrich Merz, which he wanted to pass together with the AfD.

The Left Party now has a lot ahead of it, says Gysi. It wants to retain its new members. Whether it will succeed in doing this in all cases – Gysi is skeptical. He knows that the parties need to be younger, and rigid structures need to be broken down. For example, local party meetings no longer take place in a hall, but rather on computers. This is an area where the Left Party needs to modernize. The two party leaders are currently working on this.